Characterisation issue

[c_nordlander]

We've had plenty of discussions about characterisation in fanfiction, but this is one question that has bothered me for some time, which I don't think has been addressed. In short:

If a character is given an ability, a certain event in the past, etc., and this is a reference to a film or a book, is this trait canonical?

Examples: "Bart's Girlfriend", Jessica being apparently an accomplished majorette (from "Pretty Poison", courtesy of Tony); "Homer the Vigilante", Marge drives a motorcycle (from "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World").

So, if a fanfic writer has Jessica being good at twirling batons and Marge as a motorcycle driver, do these episodes justify that, or are the scenes uncanonical on account of being references? What do YOU* think?

*Disclaimer: your opinion will probably be disregarded by someone.

[Meteorite]

THE ANSWER TO THAT LIES SOMEWHERE BETWEEN YES AND NO.


Interesting question.  I think by being refs, they have a semi-accuracy to them.  If it's within the realms of possiblity, then I think it's acceptable to be a character trait if the writer wishes so.  However, if it's over the top, then I think it should just be left as a ref and nothing more.


So, if one writer accepts a perfectly good ref-trait, such as Jessica's good hand-eye coordination, and another writer has her as being slightly clumsy, then both would be acceptable.

[D.B.]

I think it depends a little on how characterful the particular trait is, and also whether it's something which should, if true, have been made reference to on other occasions on the show.

Jessica being a majorette, for example, i see no reason not to treat as cannon. We know very little about what hobbies Jessica has (as she hasn't had enough screen time really for us to know too much about her) and it seems a pretty characterful thing for her to do to me.

Marge driving a motorcycle...hmm, bit more difficult. She's genrally portrayed as spending almost all her waking hours picking up after her family. When exactly did she find the free time to learn to ride a motorcycle? Or did she learn before she had kids/met Homer, and if so why - and if she was interested enough to do that, why has she never expressed any desire to ride motorcycles since (except that one occasion)? I'm not shooting down the idea of Marge driving a motorcycle - I just think it would take a little more work on the part of the author to make it convincing

EDIT: It occurs to me that this is just a wordier version of Alex's "Ignore the over the top stuff". Oh well.

[Meteorite]

EDIT: It occurs to me that this is just a wordier version of Alex's "Ignore the over the top stuff". Oh well.

I'm a man of few words.



Any questions?

[Kif White]

I think one needs to ask themselves not just whether Marge can ride a motorcyle, but whether she should ride one or not.

In other words, I think it's completely situational. There's really no firm "yes" or "no" answer here, IMHO. In essense the ability was really just for a throwaway gag, but on the other hand, there's no reason why Marge couldn't know how to drive a motorcyle either. It's pretty unlikely, but is still unknown, so I think a writer would have to be careful and clever to pull it off.

My answer then is pretty much like that of the others so far then. But I have to say... I find the idea of Marge driving a motorcyle far more plausible than her getting a boob job and flashing people, doing steroids and raping Homer, and running around the country leaving her kids behind unsupervised just to get some sex. And those were all primary focusses of full-on, apparently canonical episodes.

In the end, sad to say, it seems like the characters can pretty much do anything if the show as a whole is taken into consideration. Which just goes to prove that the writers are no longer adhering to the character boundaries initially set.

Okay, I'll stop now before this turns into another Simpsons-bashing thread 

[c_nordlander]

My answer then is pretty much like that of the others so far then. But I have to say... I find the idea of Marge driving a motorcyle far more plausible than her getting a boob job and flashing people, doing steroids and raping Homer, and running around the country leaving her kids behind unsupervised just to get some sex. And those were all primary focusses of full-on, apparently canonical episodes.

Was that really necessary? It's not as if anyone here is going to write about her doing those things anyway.

[Kif White]

Sorry about that... but I was merely illustrating how having Marge riding a motorcyle as a major part of a fanfic can't really be disputed at all considering the other things writers have made her do.

[c_nordlander]

No problem. I was a bit too snappy as well. I like your initial comments, it's just that then you went off on a tangent we've already discussed in other characterisation threads. Anyway, never mind that...