Fan Fiction... sick of the crap!

[Kif White]

No, this isn't a topic for me to say I'm sick of crap fanfiction as the title may suggest. No, what I'm sick of is the lack of attention towards it from most people here.

Yes, I know... this has been brought up before. But this time I'm pulling no punches. I'm going to be blunt, and I don't give a rats ass what happens to me, because some things need to be said.

Quite frankly, the whole attitude here regarding fanfics is pathatic and sickening. It really is, and I've had enough of it. I will not name names, because that's not needed. This is supposed to be the Groening Fanworks Central. Supposed to be. But the attention given to fanfics here is basically nil. Apart from a few members, just a few out of apparently 448 thus far, are even putting in an effort to read anything at all. I'm disgusted. Instead we're just getting inane topics posted in 'The Club' and it's just becoming another OFF board.

And why? Two simple factors I can see. Laziness, and selfishness. Yes, that's blunt and insulting, but I don't give a shit. Some things have to be said. There's this whole attitude of "I'm bored of fanfics. I got what I wanted two years ago from the members then... why should I give anything back now?" And that is BULLSHIT! How would you all feel if when you were writing nobody looked at your stuff and helped you out because they "were sick of fanfics" or had stopping writing? You may be sick of writing yourselves, but that's no reason to completely snub the newbies work. You were a newbie once too, even if you may rather forget that. It's just pigheaded selfishness, and I'm sick of it!

But it doesn't stop there. No, there's also the "We've got no time to read. We're too busy!"

Oh sure. But you still have time to be in an RPG (No offense, Alex... just using it as an example. And in fact, none of this is directed at you at all.), watch your favourite shows, see your favourite movies, play your favourite video games. But, sorry, you can't spare 1/2 an hour a week somewhere to read a fic now, can you? Funny, I seem to recall a certain Chris managing to write three novel-length fics, review almost every piece here, AND got the top mark of her class within a year! Wow! If she can do that, surely anybody can find enough time to read one measely fic a week?

I think that about covers it. If this is my last message here, I don't really care. In fact, I'd find it kind of ironic to be banned for caring about the very thing this place is supposed to be about. I'm here for a reason... the fanworks. What the hell are those of you who aren't here for?

[Sheana_Molloy]

Has it ever occured to you that this place started out as a fan fic/art place, and has become more of a place for good friends to hang out together rather than the former?

[Kif White]

That's bullshit! If it's supposed to have "evolved" into that, then why just not scrap the fanworks then? While they're still present, this is still primarily a fanworks board. And if you think it's okay to just leave your past in writing and/or art behind, to get the help you needed and just five new artists the middle finger because your needs in this department have been satisfied, then that's just selfish and arrogant. Simple as that.

[Anonymous]

It is still the former. The problem is that it is both, not fully one or the other. People post fics and expect to get them read. Other people hang around and come into chat and don't feel like reviewing after years of doing so, because they've lost their enthusiasm but like the people here.
This problem revolves around the clash between these two groups. Kif and Sheana are the perfect representatives of them.

[c_nordlander]

I am terrified of aiding and abetting a potential flame war, particularly during Graham's absence, but...

I'm with Kenneth here. Fanworks is what this place is about, and right now, fanfiction seems to be all but ignored. Yes, I've said this before. Yes, I guess I'll say it again. We *have* time, people! If we can go online to post in the Club, we damn well have time to read at least a fic a week. How can that possibly be too much of a sacrifice, compared to the hours we devote to school/work/sports/whatever? We do need to give something back.

As for friends: I've made more friends on this board (in its different incarnations) than in any other place in the universe. And most often, that was because they shared my passion for the great things in life, like The Simpsons, and writing. These people helped me out, man, and they gave me great fics to read. If there's anything I can do to repay that debt, I will.

Yes, I may be complaining, but the fact is that I'm getting used to have *two* people reviewing my latest fanfic, "The Search for Zapp". Two, from a board consisting of 448 members last time I counted. (Yes, I know half of these have never posted. THIS IS NOT AN EXCUSE.) I am not trying to be selfish here. I am not saying "read my fic lolz it is teh roxxorz". I am saying that *I* have two regular reviewers... and *I* am lucky. There are new members here who don't have my connections or reputation, and who will read their fics?

Come on. We've gone this far. I've tried to make all kinds of concessions to the fact that we are now a large heterogenous board, rather than a triad of vaguely British/American nerds. But if this decline goes on, this simply won't be a fanworks board anymore. I am Chris. I have spoken.

PS. And for the people who just don't like the fandom, they know their own way to the door.

[Dana]

Kif! Nice rant!

The review rate in here is appalling (sp? Too tired!) and I'm guilty of ignoring a lot of what you and Chris have been writing, mainly the "Futurama" stuff...but I'd rather read and review it after I've actually watched the show and when that's gonna happen, I'm not really sure. It might be a piss-poor excuse, but it's the truth.

Try not to feel too too bad kif, lots of people are proabaly reading your stuff but for reasons other than just plain laziness, like insecurity in reviewing, they may love your stuff and think you'll be pissed if they just say "This is wicked good! Keep it up!"
and offer nothing else...lots of people have reviewphobia...I do to a degree...especially after my last negative one...lol.

Good for you for gettin pissed and sayin it like it is...nothing wrong with that.

Dana

[SirMustapha]

I hope people don't take this thread as an attack. Just as we have new writers submitting fics, we can have new reviewers, too. I'm sure that there are outside people coming here to read fics, and maybe we should encourage these people to leave a review, because we know how much it means to the writers. It isn't entirely up to the veterans to review stuff, is it? I think the new people should play a part in that, too.

But, yes, the veterans. It is true that I haven't read much recently, but I won't try to defend myself here. It won't be worth it. I have talked about it in chat recently, and my reasons will all boil down to personal and family problems - serious problems, I should add. It could partly be due to laziness and arrogance, actually. It probably is. But I'm trying to catch up with it. One fic per week? That sounds reasonable. I think I can handle it.

Just one thing that I find pretty dangerous is when we start judging other people's lives. Yes, maybe there are people here who just don't care about the other people's works, but who knows? Everyone's got his own, personal reasons. And even though we talk in the Forum and in the Chat, essentially, we know very little of each other's lives. I talk about my life sometimes to you, but there are many things about me that you don't know. I didn't tell any of you that my father died two months ago. The past few months were difficult for me and my family, and with so many things in my head, I really wouldn't have liked someone at the opposite corner of the world to spit on my face and tell me I'm lazy and arrogant for not reading other people's fics. We're all different, and first and foremost, we should respect each other's lives. But I'm not condemning you, Kif. If anything, I understand your feelings (heck, you said that several times in Chat before, ), and sooner or latter, someone would have to say something like this here.

[Dana]

Not to go off subject here, but...I'm truly sorry to hear about your Dad Fernie. I hope that you and your family are dealing with the loss OK and my heart goes out to you. Take care.

Dana

[SirMustapha]

Thank you, Dana. Thanks a lot. I didn't intend to change the direction of the thread, really, but I just felt that was something I had to say. I'm not whoring for attention, really.

[Anonymous]

In respect of Flame War potential, I'm declaring this thread *safe* from being prematurely locked as I am one of the Accused. Just so long as you please keep it civil and not start threatening to kill each other.

(and I'm sure Graham would love to come back and see that an ugly flame war broke out after he'd been gone for just a few hours, aren't you? Let’s stay polite for his sake)

Kif is right, the main purpose of this board is - and continues to be - fanfic and fanart. The problem is that the number people with the inclination to write and be involved in fanfic here ("Creators") is declining, while the number of "casuals" is increasing. (In fact there are a few casuals here who have no interest in fics or fanart, and are here because their friends also post here)
Casuals are not a problem by themselves. They're only an issue when the number of Creators is low. There is nothing wrong with Jon posting a thread about Zelda, given that that's what "The Club" is for. It would be really nice if he were to show an interest in fics, but nobody's going to ban or censure him for not doing so.

And if you think it's okay to just leave your past in writing and/or art behind, to get the help you needed and just five new artists the middle finger because your needs in this department have been satisfied, then that's just selfish and arrogant. Simple as that.

I think an issue here is "contemporaries."
Look at who is currently reviewing. As far as a 5 mins skim of Opinions can tell me, it's primarily Kif, Chris, Fernie and Bothead. Coincidently, all of these people have released a fic over the last six months and I think everyone except Bothead has a fic recently updated. If casuals are commenting on anything, it's either very short (but good!) MissyGal vignettes or paragraph-length episode ideas.
Two years ago when Simpmoon was in full swing I read pretty much everything and reviewed far more often. I don't think my R&R tapered off until I got well and truly stuck and depressed about Simpmoon R. (and when the RPG finally ended was the last thing, I think...) And while I haven't looked up any threads to confirm this I'm pretty sure Sheana started reviewing less and lost interest in fanfic shortly after she finished Frinky Fantasy. Another example of this would be Jenny I believe. There are probably a lot more that don't immediately spring to mind. Only two members who did frequently review but did not write spring to mind - Adam (who moved to another fandom once he did begin to write...) and Stan. (Who wrote a little, but reviewed a lot more. Then he disappeared...?)

The point is easily summarised - In the vast majority of clubs I've been in, it's been contemparies who have reviewed, corrected and suggested. And the casuals are not contempary to the creators. You say it's selfish for the casuals to stop reviewing, but you dismiss the idea that these casuals DID review and comment on the fics of their contemparies - and in a few cases were doing so for up to five years prior to your arrival.
Is it really so evil to slow down after five years?
Will you still be reviewing Futurama fics two years after you stop writing them?
And when they do stop reviewing, should people be encouraged to leave the board they've made friends (and in my case, housemates) on?




Of course, it's possible that I have it backwards, and reading and reviewing is required to cause writing. And I did promise to read UoM. So tomorrow I will be reading UoM 4, 5 and 6 once I come back from Shrek 2. (and to pre-empt any misunderstanding it will NOT be under sufferance. 7,8 and 9 might be, depending on how good 4,5 6 are ) Feel free to jump down my throat if I come into chat and I haven’t done it yet.

This has been a very long and meandering post, and it's now 3AM. I'm sure the most important points I wanted to make were lost, but I'm ending it here. I'll pick up the pieces tomorrow...

[Sheana_Molloy]

That's bullshit! If it's supposed to have "evolved" into that, then why just not scrap the fanworks then? While they're still present, this is still primarily a fanworks board. And if you think it's okay to just leave your past in writing and/or art behind, to get the help you needed and just five new artists the middle finger because your needs in this department have been satisfied, then that's just selfish and arrogant. Simple as that.

Wow....what a civilized response. Funny how this thread got started after Graham left, too.

I can't think of anything to say here that won't result in shouting or people being angry at me. I'm just sick of it. Sick, sick, sick of it. So I'm going to just bloody well say it and damn the torpedoes, because there's just no use in doing anything else anymore. I don't care about consequences. I can be banned, I can be berated, I can have stuff edited by admins...so be it.

Kif, yelling at people and bullying them into doing what you want just because they want to have a life, and shaming them into agreeing with you, isn't exactly the best way to make people respect and sympathize with you.

Have you noticed a pattern?

We talk about Final Fantasy, South Park, heck, anything you don't like....you throw a fit.

We dare to like new episodes of the Simpsons....you throw a fit.

We chat about random subjects and every day things like normal people....you throw a fit.

We go to school and work and maintain sites and deal with everyday life, and when we choose to spend our free time relaxing or working on various personal things....you throw a fit.

Life isn't about 24-hour fan-fic, Kif. Yelling and screaming at people and blatantly insulting them because they don't spend every minute of their free time reading and/or writing fic isn't right.

And for the rest of you....sorry I never read your fics or reviewed your art. Between school, C&S, my regular artwork, every day life and the fact that I simply cannot read pages and pages of text on a computer screen because of what it does to my eyes and head, I just couldn't. I don't hate you or think you shouldn't write. If you write, fine, I wish you all the best. But I've never read many fics because I just couldn't. I was always more about fan-art anyway, and I left that behind because of lack of time and depression at not being original with my own creations. I'm not giving anybody 'the finger' by not participating in reviews of art or fic.

And you know the truth? You know why I first started coming to this board? Not because it was a fic board or an art board, though I did send a few doodles in at the beginning. I came here because the people on the message board intrigued me and seemed like my kind of people. I came here because I was looking to make a few friends I could talk to in the wee hours. Heck, the first person I ever really 'talked' to at this board was Alex, and I don't think we mentioned Simpsons once.

I'm done.

[Kif White]

Okay, first of all, I want to convey my condolences to Fernie for his loss. I'm really sorry, and you have my sympathies. This does bring up a good point though, and you illustrate the difference between a genuine reason and an excuse. Yours is most definitely a genuine reason.

I'm not saying everybody here should read. Different people have their reasons not to, and that's fine. But I am referring to those who have specifically used such excuses as "I'm finished with fanfic now" or "I'm too busy with schoolwork", and not, I repeat NOT, those with genuine reasons. Not everybody here has a bad/lazy attitude towards fan fiction, but some do, and I quite frankly find it frustrating. It's just that these weak excuses are the ones I most often find coming up whenever the issue is addressed, and it's really sad.

Secondly, and I'll try to make this as logical and unflamey as I can, but Sheana... quite frankly I find some of your statements hipocritial. My response may not be, as you put it, "civilised" but I never made it a direct attack at any individual member of the board. Out of those things you accuse me of throwing a fit over, the only one apart from this revelant issue right here is South Park, and that's because I am personally insulted by that show, not just because I dislike it. I have never thrown a fit about Final Fantasy. I have never thrown a fit about new OFF. I have never thrown a fit about random topics. And I find it ironic that you of all people say that considering you, Sheana, are the one who has thrown a fit on several occasions for me just saying my opinion about something, usually because of an OFF review. Find that insulting... well, take into account the fact that you have personally insulted and degraded me directly at least three times in the past couple of months. Whether you think it or not, I have respected your opinion on any matter that has come up, even if I disagree with it. But it is becoming extremely difficult when you clearly show no mutual signs of the same towards me.

That aside, I don't think 24-hours a day should be dedicated to fanworks. I have things to do to, we all do, but I make time for it, and the fact is, quite frankly fan fiction is lucky to get 1 hour a year attention from many people here, let alone 24 in a day. I don't expect people to spend every minute of their free time dedicated to fanfic, but really, what is 1/2 an hour to an hour a week? It's nothing. Plenty of time to give something back to those who helped you, or just help out somebody else.

I want to add that you bring up some very good points Steve, and there's a lot of wisdom there. But, again, my problem is only with those who don't really have genuine reasons they aren't contributing. If we just had a few more regulars to helped out around here, it wouldn't be a problem. But the thing is, that's not the case, and I not only find it frustrating, I find it sad.

Also, I'd like to make it clear I don't care if you read my stuff or not. I'm not here complaining to feed my ego or have my stuff gone over. I'm more concerned about others... especially newbies... who come here genuinely looking for help, only to not find it.

That's all for now.

[Jon]

I'm with Sheana.

Look, you can't make any of us start reading or writing fics. It's just not gonna happen.

I have good reasons not to do so:

1: I hate fanfiction. Sorry guys, but I really do.
2: ...that's it.


Also, I don't come here for the fanfics or the fanart...I come for the people. Hell, I could care less about "The Simpsons VS. POWER RANGERS!!!!!!". But without you guys, my life is a meaningless void in which I would substitute the forum with chasing rats into the garage where I would preform hideous acts upon them.

Well, not really. But it's still cool to have a second social life. Er.........on the internet.


So, sorry if we don't do every single thing that you want, Kif, but we all have different lives and opinions.

EDIT: Just so you all know, Kif posted while I was writing this. YEP.

[Marco]

The answer, at least for me, is simple:

Once Simpsons was the 90% of my daily interests, i readed whatever came as fanfiction and watched whatever fanart i could handle. I reviewed art, i reviewed fanfic, and damit, i even tried to write myself for more than once, and i tried so hard on myself that the result was one of the biggest delusions in my whole life. After this all started going downhill:

The fact that I started hating fanfiction for this. Not really hating, but it takes a stronger approach for me to start reading something now.
All the halo of "eliteness" this board got worked up about fanfiction in general and toward new people.
The fact that some people think fanfiction is a way to throw their teeny mental anguishes on the charachters and get praised for destroying instead of creating (not the case of this board, at least in a while).
My envy in regards of the writers right now (well, right always).
The fact that (i guess) readign a fanfiction to then say "it's good" or "it's bad" isn't worthy of reading here. I want to review a fanfic, and that DOES take time, a lot of it, at least for me. For reviewing pics is easy, but i try to never post a "hey, good"-like comment. It wouldn't help the board or the creator at all.

I think i grew "tired" of fanfiction a loong time ago, maybe it's not fault of you people and i went in search for this delusion, but can't be changed. Now, i can say i'm sorry and all, but why do i have to feel forced to read?
Btw, i'm talking only about Simpsons fanfic... i don't know Futurama enough yet, but i could be starting to read fanfics about it if i get those DVDs.

Heck, i wouldn't even post or review fanart if it was for me. I just feel like i have something to give back, but i got here as an "artist" and i'll stay in those two boards. And this is the only forum in which i know my crazy pics will be considered if just a bit.
I like when many people reply to my threads and i hate when no one does, and i suppose it's twice as hard for whoever posting fics, especially new people. I'm really sorry for that: but i do have my reasons.

P.S: Fernie, i'm really sorry for that. Be strong, and take care of your family.

[c_nordlander]

Damn it, Fernando, I am so sorry. There is nothing I can possibly say to make anything better, but you know how much I sympathise.