I have finally cracked Lisa's Wedding!

[EvilCupcake]

Let me start off by saying that I think that Hugh Parkfield is an insensitive prick.
I do not However think he ever intended to forbid Lisa from ever seeing her family again.

Lets look at Hugh's lines from the final scene;

'Frankly, I'll be quite happy when we get back to England and we won't have to deal with them'

'Perhaps your Mother will come when the childeren are born?'

'Come on, you complain about them more than anyone!'

Stange, I dont see any indication that Hugh wants Lisa to never see her family again. Just that Hugh has no intention of making a habit of seeing them.

Now, from the above lines and forgetting your love of Lisa for just a moment, can you find anything the the above lines that Lisa could have interpeted as him forbidding her from ever seeing her family? Had Hugh said 'I forbid you to ever see your family again.' then I would have bought Lisa's reaction. She had every right to be pissed at Hugh
but her calling off the wedding is beggars belife. Where on Earth did we get the idea that Hugh wanted Lisa to stop seeing her family?

Lisa's lines;

'Are you saying I won't see my family again?'

'I can't belive I'm hearing this I don't want to cut my family out of my life!'

'Maybe, but I still love them. And I don't think you understand that.'

So, in short, Lisa accuses Hugh of trying to 'cut her famly out her life' and of not understanding the fact that she loves them. Was this scene edited or cut? Because it sounds like two diffrent conversations meshed together. A theroy that Fank Osbourne has is that Lisa never loved Hugh but was looking for a father for Milhouse's baby, with which she was pregnant with.

Frank;.....upon discovering the pregnancy Milhouse is thrilled and askes Lisa to marry him but she declines, saying that she does not plan to ever get married.
But the flashback scene is signifigant for another reason IMHO remember what Lisa says to Milhouse before he starts crying?

LISA; It's not that I don't love you, Milhouse, its just that I dont plan to ever get married.

[SirMustapha]

Just a bit of "reading between the lines", there:

LISA: Are you saying I won't see my family again?
HUGH: Perhaps your mother will come when the children are born.

Hugh's reply isn't pretty much a yes? I don't think the cause of the break up was the prospect of him forbidding her from seeing her family, but his refusal of accepting them (however understandable, ) would end up in a fight sooner or later. And in the end, Lisa preferred to stick to her family.

But after all, I've always faced that episode as a parable more than anything. The "facts" aren't as important as what they represent.

[c_nordlander]

Well, Hugh doesn't correct Lisa when she thinks he wants to stop her from seeing her family, which seems pretty much like an acknowledgement to me.

And as to:

A theroy that Fank Osbourne has is that Lisa never loved Hugh but was looking for a father for Milhouse's baby, with which she was pregnant with.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that scene set at least a couple of years before the wedding (Lisa looked more like a teenager, Milhouse still had all his own hair)?

[fellranger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that scene set at least a couple of years before the wedding (Lisa looked more like a teenager, Milhouse still had all his own hair)?

Yes, it was definitely a high-school flashback.  And quite where the mysterious Mr Osbourne got the pregnancy idea from I'd rather not speculate.....

[arpulver]

First off, Fernando's right- the episode is pretty much meant as a parable and not concrete fact. I, of course, read the episode like Scripture... but that's probably even more fuel for the parable argument.

Basically, I suppose Hugh wasn't explicitly forbidding it, but he was certainly trying to get the family out of both his and Lisa's life. Had it boiled down to it, he'd probably allow her to fly back once a year to see them, but he wanted nothing to do with them. That was clearly not good enough for Lisa, who wanted him to accept (or at least tolerate) her background. This is best exemplified by the exchange you forgot:

Hugh: Lisa, you're better than this place: You're like a flower that grew out of a pot of dirt.
Lisa: That's a horrible thing to say!

That insensitivity was ultimately the clincher. As Fernie said, that would have resulted in a fight sooner or later, because Lisa is a Simpson. And I can think of a plausible argument right off the bat- what if Lisa decided to keep her own name instead of changing it to Parkfield?

And I don't know why you bothered to bring up the Milhouse thing. Even if Lisa was pregnant (which is impossible since that thing with Milhouse happened years earlier during high school), it's doubtful that she could have hidden that fact from Hugh. Your quote from the flashback is also way off. Love isn't mentioned anywhere in the actual scene- her line is "It's not you, Milhouse, I just don't plan to ever get married." The "It's not you" is a pretty standard break-up line.

[EvilCupcake]

Just a bit of "reading between the lines", there:

LISA: Are you saying I won't see my family again?
HUGH: Perhaps your mother will come when the children are born.

Hugh's reply isn't pretty much a yes? I don't think the cause of the break up was the prospect of him forbidding her from seeing her family, but his refusal of accepting them (however understandable, ) would end up in a fight sooner or later. And in the end, Lisa preferred to stick to her family.

The impression I got was that Hugh simply did not like being with the Simpsons clan, [come on, would you realy want the Simpsons as inlaws?] what I also didnt get was the fact that Lisa knew that Hugh would not like her family[hyperventilating in the taxi] and that she would see her family less [he's from England people!]. Lisa never expected Hugh to accept her family, she knew this when he purposed to her. So when Hugh [admittedly tactlessly] stated his feelings about the Simpsons to her, she flipped out. Why? Because she feels the exact same way. She is, of course, ashamed of this. In other words it is a case of misdirected anger mixed with genuine anger at Hugh for being so tactless. But, sadly, the misdirected anger won out and two people ended up with broken hearts that day.

Hugh: Lisa, you're better than this place: You're like a flower that grew out of a pot of dirt.
Lisa: That's a horrible thing to say!

A commen misconception about this line is that a 'pot of dirt' reffered to the family and even I knew that on seeing the episode for the first time that he was talking about Springfield, not the Simpsons.

But one nagging question remains, why did Lisa agree to marry Hugh? She knew that, after having met Hugh's parents, she would know that Hugh wouldn't like the Simpsons or at least have some sort of inkling of it.

About, Milhouse, Frank did later say that it had been a while since he saw the episode but:

Frank;..... there is still the possibility that Lisa got pregnant shortly before hand. Now that I think about it, was it ever stated when Lisa lost her virginity to Milhouse?

[Sheana_Molloy]

You two seem pretty intent on Lisa getting pregnant by Milhouse.  There's very obviously several years between the Milhouse flashback and the Hugh story, so no go with that.  Besides, if Lisa ever did get pregnant, I sincerely doubt that the writers would keep it so secret/not write it into the story.

[Stretch_Dude]

About, Milhouse, Frank did later say that it had been a while since he saw the episode but:

Frank;..... there is still the possibility that Lisa got pregnant shortly before hand. Now that I think about it, was it ever stated when Lisa lost her virginity to Milhouse?

LISA: Mom, I feel kinda funny wearing white. You know, Milhouse...
MARGE: Oh, honey, Milhouse doesn't count.

Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out, Frank.

(1000th post! Woo!)

[Marco]

I dont see the connection between Milhouse asking Lisa to marry him, and Lisa beign pregnant. A thing doesnt necessarily involve the other.

Milhouse probably asked her to marry him around three tiems per day.

[Officer 1BDI]

Just a bit of "reading between the lines", there:

LISA: Are you saying I won't see my family again?
HUGH: Perhaps your mother will come when the children are born.

Hugh's reply isn't pretty much a yes? I don't think the cause of the break up was the prospect of him forbidding her from seeing her family, but his refusal of accepting them (however understandable, ) would end up in a fight sooner or later. And in the end, Lisa preferred to stick to her family.

The impression I got was that Hugh simply did not like being with the Simpsons clan, [come on, would you realy want the Simpsons as inlaws?] what I also didnt get was the fact that Lisa knew that Hugh would not like her family[hyperventilating in the taxi] and that she would see her family less [he's from England people!].

I was under the impression that Lisa was hyperventilating because she was worried that Hugh wouldn't accept her family, not because that fact was already set in stone.  If it were, I'm doubt she would have even accepted his proposal, let alone invited him to meet her parents.

Lisa never expected Hugh to accept her family, she knew this when he purposed to her. So when Hugh [admittedly tactlessly] stated his feelings about the Simpsons to her, she flipped out. Why? Because she feels the exact same way. She is, of course, ashamed of this. In other words it is a case of misdirected anger mixed with genuine anger at Hugh for being so tactless. But, sadly, the misdirected anger won out and two people ended up with broken hearts that day.

I still think she was at least hoping he would accept them.  He could have tolerated them, at least, but instead, he chose to suggest that they run away from them entirely (except for Marge, who was easily the one in-law he could handle being around).  Yes, Lisa is often embarassed to be a part of that family, but she is still a Simpson, and she and her family still love each other, despite their differences.

As long as we're throwing opinions around, I always felt one of the reasons Lisa called off the wedding was because she saw Hugh's move as an attempt to control her.  If someone I was dating tried to keep me away from my family and friends for any reason, there'd be alarms going off in my head, too.

Hugh: Lisa, you're better than this place: You're like a flower that grew out of a pot of dirt.
Lisa: That's a horrible thing to say!

A commen misconception about this line is that a 'pot of dirt' reffered to the family and even I knew that on seeing the episode for the first time that he was talking about Springfield, not the Simpsons.

That's how you interpreted that line, though.  Granted, it is a plausable interpretation (the other Springfieldians certainly gave Hugh reason enough to say that about the town in its entirety), but it still doesn't excuse the fact that Hugh is insulting Lisa's background, whether it be her family or her hometown.  Even if Hugh was referring to the town in general, he would still be including the family, though not in as specific a manner.

But one nagging question remains, why did Lisa agree to marry Hugh? She knew that, after having met Hugh's parents, she would know that Hugh wouldn't like the Simpsons or at least have some sort of inkling of it.

I don't see how meeting Hugh's parents would hint towards Hugh instantly disliking her family.  They seemed very prim and proper compared to her own, but there was nothing, as far as I could see, that would have predicted they would react to her family like they did.  Yes, there was always the potential, and unfortunately (for Lisa), they used that potential, but I fail to see how Lisa could have forseen Hugh's parents' reactions to her own.

As for why: she agreed to marry Hugh because they had so much in common in regards to intellect, personal beliefs, and so forth.  I thought she and Hugh would have made a great couple... right up until the last five-ten minutes of the episode. 

[EvilCupcake]

The fact still remains that Lisa agreed to marry a man from a background entirley diffrent from her own.....pehaps Lisa is guilty of being intolarant as well?

[Dagdamor]

Gah. She just finally found another vegetarian of her age, that's all. Case closed.

[EvilCupcake]

And I don't know why you bothered to bring up the Milhouse thing. Even if Lisa was pregnant (which is impossible since that thing with Milhouse happened years earlier during high school), it's doubtful that she could have hidden that fact from Hugh. Your quote from the flashback is also way off. Love isn't mentioned anywhere in the actual scene- her line is "It's not you, Milhouse, I just don't plan to ever get married." The "It's not you" is a pretty standard break-up line.

I distintly remember her saying 'It's not that I dont love you' though it may have been changed, ala the North Kenucky/Southeren Missouri affair. But look at the the highlighted part of Lisa's statement. Why would she say that and then marry Hugh? What changed during the years between that flashback and the 'present'?

[Meteorite]

What changed during the years between that flashback and the 'present'?

She did.  People change all the time.  No-one ever makes a decision once and sticks with it for the rest of their life.

[Dagdamor]

Ed, come on. Lisa is not a robot. She is a girl with her own thoughts and feelings, and she has all rights to change her plans sometimes. Did you ever change your mind about anything? Besides, you just said yourself that *years* passed since then. Long enough for me.