(WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (4/10) (PG-13)

Postby c_nordlander » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:35 pm

Lisabella wrote:Maybe 'when she was startled into conciousness', to simplify?


That sounds pretty much perfect to me!
The noose draws tighter;
This is the end;
I'm a good fighter
But a bad friend;
I've played the traitor
Over and over;
I'm a good hater
But a bad lover.


Elinor Wylie, "Peregrine"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (4/10) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:12 am

Aww thanks!  Should have finalized versions of last couple of chapter plus a new one in a couple of weeks.
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:14 pm

Final two chapters!
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Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:15 pm

And the final one!
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Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

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Crack!Fic, The Marge Simpson Way: "Just then, Sir Lancelot rode up on a white horse and saved Joan of Arc.  They got married and lived in a spaceship.  The end." - Tales from the Public Domain, "Hot Child In The City"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby Stretch_Dude » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:41 am

Just...beautiful.
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I can recite it right now and have you ROTFLOL
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:48 am

Really, SD?  Thanks!
Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

Creator of the Waving Universe

Crack!Fic, The Marge Simpson Way: "Just then, Sir Lancelot rode up on a white horse and saved Joan of Arc.  They got married and lived in a spaceship.  The end." - Tales from the Public Domain, "Hot Child In The City"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby Stretch_Dude » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:53 am

I just want to add... As a whole, this story blows me away. When I first wrote that plot-bunny post, I was just spitballing, just tossing ideas out there. I know you guys are fantastic writers, but I never imagined somebody would take an idea I came up with on the spot and turn it into such a moving story. Hell, I never imagined somebody would take any idea I came up with and turn it into anything. It's...kinda overwhelming, really. Missy, you exceeded any expectations I may have had by several orders of magnitude.

So.

*gives Missy a standing ovation*
I memorized "Holy Grail" really well
I can recite it right now and have you ROTFLOL
- "Weird Al" Yankovic, "White and Nerdy"

"Any pile of stunted growth unaware that entertainment is just that and nothing more, deserves to doom themselves to some dank cell, somewhere, for having been so stupid!! Movies, books, T.V., music - they're all just entertainment, not guidebooks for damning yourself!" - Nny

I draw too, dammit!
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:58 am

*bows* thank you so much - I'm very proud of this one <3 <3.  I'm glad you approved of what you did with my idea :)
Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

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Crack!Fic, The Marge Simpson Way: "Just then, Sir Lancelot rode up on a white horse and saved Joan of Arc.  They got married and lived in a spaceship.  The end." - Tales from the Public Domain, "Hot Child In The City"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby Stretch_Dude » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:18 am

Lisabella wrote:*bows* thank you so much - I'm very proud of this one <3 <3.  I'm glad you approved of what you did with my idea :)


Well, it's really what you did with my idea, but yes. I approve. I approve like a turbo-nuclear-powered approval machine cranked up to eleven, then cranked up to 12. ;D
I memorized "Holy Grail" really well
I can recite it right now and have you ROTFLOL
- "Weird Al" Yankovic, "White and Nerdy"

"Any pile of stunted growth unaware that entertainment is just that and nothing more, deserves to doom themselves to some dank cell, somewhere, for having been so stupid!! Movies, books, T.V., music - they're all just entertainment, not guidebooks for damning yourself!" - Nny

I draw too, dammit!
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:59 am

*facepalm* Strike that, reverse it *Willy Wonka*. Thank you for loaning me that bunny!
Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

Creator of the Waving Universe

Crack!Fic, The Marge Simpson Way: "Just then, Sir Lancelot rode up on a white horse and saved Joan of Arc.  They got married and lived in a spaceship.  The end." - Tales from the Public Domain, "Hot Child In The City"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby c_nordlander » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:39 pm

Way to go finishing this, Missy!

Part 5:

She moved like a wooden doll missing its joint pins
Great description.

Typo: at one point, you have "Alison" instead of "Allison".

The writing as a whole is great here. I have hardly anything to remark on. The descriptions are very good, and Marge is nicely in character. Lisa's outburst feels well-written and in character when it comes.

They both froze in horrified pain at Lisa’s words.
Might be *slightly* telling instead of showing, though it's a really minuscule problem. Maybe removing "horrified" would be better. Again, very tiny problem.

Marge's reaction is great. Very much like her to take Lisa away to talk things out, instead of having a shouting-match in public. Everything remains well-written.

Important quote in spoilers for the benefit of those who haven't yet read it:

Sure, he wasn’t smart, or clean, or terribly responsible, but he treated you like a queen, and me like a princess.
Beautiful.

Spoiler


This is just excellent, and obviously the heart of the fic. One nitpick: "with horror" isn't really needed at all, since the dialogue and Lisa's reaction demonstrates it so well. I would cut it.

Tense change: "Marge points out". Other than that, another great line.

This is really up to you, but I think that Lisa's reasoning as to why she would save Marge rather than Homer shouldn't be focused so much on why she doesn't want Homer, and more on why she wants Marge. What you have isn't *bad* but bits like "how hard it would be to live with him on the space station" makes it sound like she wanted Homer gone, rather than just preferring Marge slightly more. I don't think that's needed here: sure, I'm all for Lisa and everyone else having bad sides, but I don't think anyone in the world would feel the least resentment towards a family member when forced into that choice. That put to the side, Lisa's reasoning is excellent, especially her choosing out of concern for Maggie. I just think you should carefully weigh her dialogue here so it doesn't sound like she disliked or resented Homer.

I remember the look in Bart’s eye.”  Her voice trembled.  “He was so young…”
Shouldn't it be "eyes"? Great line, otherwise.

Typo: "the Taylor's answering machine" should be "Taylors'".

Nice ending to that snippet, too.

Part 6:

I like the mention of Lisa having grown. Nice way to slip in a mention of the time passed.

Typo: "posess" should be "possess".

The whole counselling section is good. The psychiatrist's dialogue feels a little trite, but it's acknowledged in the story, and maybe truisms are what Lisa needs right now.

Spoiler


Her mother – looking regal in her business suit – standing beside the town’s mayor,
You don't have a verb in this clause, so it should be either "was standing" or "stood".

Tense change: "Soon she'll be too heavy". Nice sentence otherwise.

Lisa coolly thought that it was twee, a bit clichéd.
"Coolly" isn't needed, but other than that I think it's a great sentence, defusing the risk of sentimentality. (Though I personally like the monument.  :P At least the inscription.)

The last few sentences are good. By and large, great ending.

OK: I'll save more exhaustive concluding remarks until you post the finalised version, but I think you've outdone yourself with this. I don't like the THoH segment it's based on at all, but you've spun a good story from what was just another bad-taste character death. Some parts of it skirt soap-opera, but not many, and it's mainly a case of plot events (such as Lisa pushing everyone away, or
Spoiler
: the drama itself is excellently written and always feels natural. It lives up to its title well, with Lisa and Marge carrying the show, and Allison providing a good supporting character. I'm particularly happy about the turning-point, in part 5. It was completely unexpected for me, and yet it feels natural and necessary. All working towards a great, low-key, not too pompous ending.

One of your best fics to date, definitely. And everyone else, read it!
The noose draws tighter;
This is the end;
I'm a good fighter
But a bad friend;
I've played the traitor
Over and over;
I'm a good hater
But a bad lover.


Elinor Wylie, "Peregrine"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:38 pm

@Chris - thank you so much for following this monster from start to finish!  And thank you so much for the compliments, it really does mean a lot!

Ironically, you hilighted my biggest concern with this ending - the notion that Lisa was painting Homer as somehow a less worthy choice.  I was trying to make it more of an exploration of Lisa's guilt without painting Homer a saint, which of course he isn't canonically.  I'll definately work through that paragraph in the final versions, which I should have up in a few weeks.
Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

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Crack!Fic, The Marge Simpson Way: "Just then, Sir Lancelot rode up on a white horse and saved Joan of Arc.  They got married and lived in a spaceship.  The end." - Tales from the Public Domain, "Hot Child In The City"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby c_nordlander » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:33 pm

I can see your problem here, and I'm kind of glad we feel the same about it. Like I said, in the current draft it kind of comes off as, to put it in extreme terms, Lisa choosing Marge over Homer because she doesn't like Homer. Now, in a normal situation, that might even be true, but this isn't a normal situation - if you have to choose to let a family member die, you're going to be extremely reluctant to do so, unless said family member is a complete abusive monster.

I'm fine with Lisa choosing Marge for the selfish reason that she likes her the most - after all, she had to choose. The addition that she did it so Maggie would have a mother makes it even better. But she would *choose to save Marge*, she wouldn't *choose to let Homer die*, is what I'm trying to say. Even if she rather disliked Homer in day-to-day life (which of course she doesn't), she would still much rather save him.

To sum up: I don't think you made it sound like Lisa hated Homer or was happy to be rid of him or anything like that, I'm just saying you need to tweak her dialogue to make it clear that she didn't leave Homer because she thought he would be a nuisance.
The noose draws tighter;
This is the end;
I'm a good fighter
But a bad friend;
I've played the traitor
Over and over;
I'm a good hater
But a bad lover.


Elinor Wylie, "Peregrine"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby missy_misery » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:07 pm

Urgh, yeah, that's my exact concern - that it's too much "we annoyed each other, so I left him behind because Marge was the easier choice."  I'm trying to shoot for "I picked her because Maggie needed her" .

I also need to lean more upon Lisa's guilt over the fact that she decided without even thinking twice in that segment (something that irritates me about the actual episode).  Like you said, I just need to tweak the sentance mechanics.
Now known as Lisabella! (Or Missy.  Missy's good.)

Creator of the Waving Universe

Crack!Fic, The Marge Simpson Way: "Just then, Sir Lancelot rode up on a white horse and saved Joan of Arc.  They got married and lived in a spaceship.  The end." - Tales from the Public Domain, "Hot Child In The City"
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Re: (WIP) "The Bouvier Girls" (6/6) (PG-13)

Postby c_nordlander » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:33 pm

Then we're on the same page.

Well, there's only so much you can do with a scene where Lisa condemned Homer and Bart to death for a quick joke. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it (I mean, it's a THoH, main characters get killed off for a quick joke left and right)*, but it's not going to be easy to turn that into moving drama. If I were you, I'd put the minimum amount of focus on the quickness of Lisa's decision. Anyway, I don't mean to sound too critical: you've done far better turning the set-up of the episode into a good and in-character drama than I ever could have.

My main gripe about Lisa's line is the bit where she says that Homer would have been too difficult to bring on the shuttle, or something to that extent. Also, the bit about "how sad Maggie was when left at home with Dad" (quoting from memory, sorry) should perhaps be changed to just not mentioning Homer at all. "How sad Maggie was when you weren't at home" or something similar would be better.

*Although in this case, I didn't find the joke funny.
The noose draws tighter;
This is the end;
I'm a good fighter
But a bad friend;
I've played the traitor
Over and over;
I'm a good hater
But a bad lover.


Elinor Wylie, "Peregrine"

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