Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

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SirMustapha
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Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:20 pm

I've actually been meaning to do this for a long time, but a mix of uncertainty, laziness and overall inertia kept me from starting. Well, yesterday, I purchased a few supplies and started drawing.

I actually have drawn before, but I never trusted my skills, and I thought I lacked some fundamental sense of space and proportion to do something decent (and I have very, very bad memories of the art classes from elementary school--the least said about that, the better). But since I got this eagerness to pick up new things and forcing myself to learn them, I decided to give it a shot, and these are the initial results.

The first one is my first attempt at a "proper" drawing (i.e. not a sketch). I call it Self-Portrait with Guitar Failure, and I used some reference pictures for the pose. I realised too late that that's not how I hold the guitar, and that's not even how my guitar looks like. The expression, though, is a close approximation of my experiences playing this instrument.

The second one (in what seems to be the start of a "people frowning while playing instruments" series) is a character from a story I've written (I haven't published it here yet). I think this shows how far away I am from drawing decent faces. And hands. The proportions are all probably wrong, but I think it at least shows some effort. I used a reference picture for this. I call this Angry Alice.

The third one is Rosa, from Treasure Hunt. I think the face and the proportions look a little better this time around (and I did this before the Alice drawing), and I tried colouring it with colouring pencils, with a slight attempt at shading. The dark streak in her left leg is a mess up, not intentional.

Comments, of course, are appreciated, but I don't see what comments could be adequate other than "you have a lot to learn, son".
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Self-Portrait with Guitar Failure
Self-Portrait with Guitar Failure
Angry Alice
Angry Alice
Rosa
Rosa
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by Nidotamer » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:44 pm

Hey, it's still a start and you've got a better grasp on how instruments than me! Anatomy is damned hard to do right so, not sure you really should be that broken up about how you did when you're still kinda early into this!

But for the sake of helpfulness, here's a good ref resource! https://uk.pinterest.com/characterdesigh/ You'll have to get an account but if you have a Google account or whatever you can make the process much easier. :3
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:51 pm

That's a great resource, May! Thanks a lot. I can tell it's going to be particularly helpful.

Well, this is the drawing I just did. Again, it's from Treasure Hunt, specifically a scene from Day 3. I don't think I'll try shading or colouring on that one (unless I learn software colouring someday).
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Treasure Hunt, Day 3
Treasure Hunt, Day 3
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:16 pm

Well, here's my first attempt at something Simpsons related. Yes, there's definitely a lot to improve, but I'm fairly surprised that my first Allison ain't too shabby. And yes, I realised too late that Lisa's flute was oversized. I call it It's Over, not Into, the Blowhole!.

(in case you're wondering, the score is supposed to be Jethro Tull's Bourée)
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It's OVER, not INTO, the Blowhole!
It's OVER, not INTO, the Blowhole!
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:22 am

So it happens I'm getting some help to improve my English pronunciation. It doesn't seem to be going very well.
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pronunciation101_small.png
Last edited by SirMustapha on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by gkscotty » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:43 am

Looking good, that's a cute scene. Are the notes accurate?
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:42 am

Yeah, the notes are correct! ... well, I actually got the key wrong (B major instead of B-flat major), but I just fixed it! I am pedantic. They are the first seven notes you hear at 43 seconds in this song.

I have to say, pretty much as soon as I was finished with the flute drawing, I could spot several mistakes (e.g. Lisa's flute is oversized, as I tried to use real life proportions, but her arms are too long as a result), but this one looks reasonable for me. Also, I cleaned up the drawing on GIMP, so it looks far less messy. I think one thing that kept me from drawing for all this years was feeling embarrassed by my mistakes. Now, I just look at the stuff I mess up and try to learn what I should change. This is a lot more fun than I thought it would be. :)
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by c_nordlander » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:04 pm

I wish I hadn't put off commenting on these for so long. Now you probably think I hate them.

You're off to a good start, and I can't draw bodies at all, so you're already ahead of me there. However, it seems like you have problems with arms sometimes: for example, your right lower arm (left from our perspective) on the first pic looks too thin (the other one looks good), and in the second one, Alice's elbows are way too angular and her right lower arm bends oddly. Stylising is great, but you need to be able to draw things realistically first.

An important thing: you're not supposed to draw the entire nose when seen from the front. Look at yourself in the mirror: most of your nose has no outlines. You really just draw the tip and nostrils, maybe shade in a bit around the orbits of the eyes. You don't draw the outline of the rest of the nose, unless the face is turned a bit or there's strong enough lighting to shade one side of it.

You can tell that your noses are much better in profile. That's because that's the only time a nose really has outlines.

On the upside, you draw faces in different positions here, not just straight from the front or in profile, so that's good.

First one is very funny. The face feels a bit basic, but your expression is pretty great.

Angry Alice has a really nice pose. Reminds me of some classical artwork, with the well-drawn cello and all. Her left hand (on the cello's neck) needs work. Her face looks very good.

And I finally get to see Rosa!

"Treasure Hunt" scene: good poses, but the guy's (Carlos'?) head seems a bit small.

Lisa and Allison playing the transverse flute: Lisa is way more on-model than I could ever make her. Both their arms need work, though, especially Lisa's, though that might be a style thing. Also, Lisa's upper body is way too skinny, but her face looks great. Allison is pretty good (something about her eyes needs work), but the top of her head needs to be higher.

Last picture is funny. Again, Lisa looks very good, if a bit early-seasonish in style. But that's not a bad thing. The notes in this and the previous picture are absolutely great. I love it when artists use notes from real music in their pictures.

Another general tip: use references for things like anatomy, even if you're not going for full realism.

So yeah, hope that was a bit helpful and not too harsh. Remember, it's not like I can draw better.

EDIT: Crappy tutorial by me in how to draw a nose. Note the lack of outlines for the rest of the nose. First draw the tip and the nostrils, then shade in the nostrils.
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nose tutorial.jpg
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:52 pm

I really, really appreciate your comments, Chris! Pretty much everything you said is completely accurate and helpful.

When you mention my problem with drawing arms, I think it mainly boils down to the trouble I have with getting proportions right, and it usually takes a long time for me to notice some mistakes: heads too small, arms too thin, and so on. And in some cases, after trying and erasing too many times, it completely screws up the paper and I give up fixing something. I'll keep on trying to work on that however I can, as I find that repetition and exercise is the only way for getting things right.

At such an early stage, I'm trying to approach realism as much as I can. If anything looks cartoony, it's either by accident or by trying to avoid getting overwhelmed with detail. If anything resembling a personal style ever comes out, it will happen naturally. For now, I just want to strike a balance between realism and simplicity (except for the Simpsons stuff, of course, but that should go without saying).

The only stylistic issue I have is with drawing noses. I never liked the "noselessness" of certain styles (particularly in anime, it really puts me off). I mean, when I look at someone's face front to front, even when there are no proper outlines, I can always see the shape of the nose (unless you really exaggerate on the lighting, like on that Evanescence album cover, which I find beyond ugly), and that's why I insisted on the outline. I'll have to experiment with other possibilities (shading, perhaps) before I try to make a definitive argument, but yes, I'm conscious of that. And I really liked the tutorial, by the way. I'll have to try that out sometime!

I don't think I'd ever find your comments harsh, Chris. Your comments are always intended to be helpful, and that's what counts for me. :)

(and yes, that's Carlos alright, in the scene where he hides his face from her.)
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by c_nordlander » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:21 am

Glad I could be of some help! Proportions are incredibly hard for me: you're doing better than I, and probably better than a lot of beginning artists. Thanks for your generally elucidating responses.

I'm certainly not telling anyone to draw people without noses. But if you're able to see all the outlines of the nose from the front, then I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't see it.

Oh, and another tip: draw what you see, not what you think is supposed to be there. (Again, comes back to the "use references" tip.)

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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:38 pm

Just Chris wrote:But if you're able to see all the outlines of the nose from the front, then I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't see it.
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean that I could see outlines, but that I can see the shape of it. But then again, it's a lot more feasible to see volume in an actual three-dimensional shape than on a two-dimensional sheet of paper, and how outlines don't always represent volume. I have to test out my ideas first before I think of disagreeing with you on that one. :)
Just Chris wrote:Oh, and another tip: draw what you see, not what you think is supposed to be there. (Again, comes back to the "use references" tip.)
That's a good one! And this is close to the impressions I've been getting regarding art in the last few years; just like making music to me is much more an exercise of listening than of performing, and writing is much more about reading than about typing, drawings are a lot more about seeing than scribbling. I realised that, in my mind, I usually tend to have a very abstract vision of things, and I'm having to reconfigure my way of looking at things, paying attention to literal shapes and lines rather than to the ideas of things.
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:20 am

I forgot to post this here, for some reason. Here are some more scenes from Treasure Hunt.

The first one I posted on chat last weekend, and some issues have already been pointed out, but I don't think I could possibly fix this without redrawing this entirely. I'm, in fact, more satisfied with the background than with the characters (by the way, this is based on an actual Google Street View photo from the place where the characters are supposed to be, though I'm sure it looked a little different back in 2001). Rosa is supposed to be looking downwards and to the side, but I really messed it up. (I also tried a different approach on drawing noses; what looks like an outline is supposed to be a shade)

The second one is, in fact, an earlier drawing. Rosa looks very weird, but I really like Carlos's face here. This is the closest I got to drawing him the way I picture him.
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To the store
To the store
Embrace
Embrace
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:57 am

Who knew? Turns out I'm still on the drawing business. And, unsurprisingly, it's Treasure Hunt stuff. This may be a bit spoilery, as this is a scene from the mid-to-end portion of the story, but without any context, I don't think it gives much away.

I'm quite pleased with how Carlos came out, but I really messed up on Rosa's expression. The awkward angle and expression made it hard to draw, so it looks pretty wonky. I'm still struggling to come up with a style to draw faces that is expressive and isn't too unrealistic. And I have to give credit to Chris; as reluctant as I was to follow her advice on noses, this looks a lot better than what I was trying to do before.
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Confrontation
Confrontation
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by Nidotamer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:27 am

Looking better, and you're showing more confidence with things like hands than I ever did! A lot of placements and propotions still seem to be in the right place but there's still kind of a lack of structure to it. There's also very little overlap in the lines and it gets left a little flat looking. Though considering you have so many other hobbies you might not have as much time for it as I do, it's helpful to do a lot of studies, check out good artists and see if they have any guides or tips. For starters, here's Nsio http://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-Sty ... -425224639 a seriously great manga-like artist with a lot of helpful guides I still need to fully read through. Other than that a lot of art is in observations and patterns like what most being have in common!

Still, making some pretty big steps, that's a really good thing.
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Re: Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

Post by SirMustapha » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:31 pm

Nidotamer wrote:There's also very little overlap in the lines and it gets left a little flat looking.
That's one thing I noticed... but only way after the drawing was published, of course, why would I notice problems while I could still fix them, right? My difficulty with finding guides is mainly with finding some that match my level of skill. Cutting the self-deprecation, I know I'm not entirely skill-less, but some things that seem obvious to others are a complete mystery to me. So, it's up to me to keep working, and thank you for the feedback!
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