Fernie thinks he can draw; cringe ensues

[Nidotamer]

That's true, there's a lot of tutorials that do assume a lot of you (Step 2: Draw the rest of the fucking owl) but I think that artist in particular caters to a lot of varying skill levels if you check the tutorials folder. Often I find tutorials helpful even when I'm not following them to the letter since some of them might point out a helpful pattern you may not have noticed before!

[SirMustapha]

So it seems Lisa has had enough time to practice the flute, and now she won't stop showing off. But hey, after what I did last time, I think she deserves some comeuppance.

For reference: she's supposed to be standing kind of in profile, with her torso turned to the left (which is the proper position for flautists). I intended for her pose to be more interesting and expressive, but I completely botched it. I think I should have scoured more for better reference pics, but well, that was already pretty difficult to do anyway...

(also, those strange symbols on the score are totally legit microtonal accidentals. I told you she was showing off)

[gkscotty]

You're improving, I think it's clearly better than the last time you drew Lisa.

The arms feel a little thin. You've done the hair better then I ever have, why do you think I switched to drawing in anime style in the first place.

[Nidotamer]

Mhm, definitely a step up! I think the hands in particular stand out, maybe because I always make a mangled mess of them myself.

Just think one thing you gotta look out for is width, the arms are a bit thin but also they kinda vary in thickness where it feels like it shouldn't. Not sure if there's a particular trick to keeping things consistent, I think it's just something you keep an eye out for!

[SirMustapha]

I think I was too concerned with the angle and the position of the arms, and only noticed that I botched the width after I had it scanned. I still have this problem when I'll put too much focus on one or two aspects, and end up ignoring the others. I think it's more a matter of patience and perception than of skill per se, and I'll keep an eye on that.

I'm actually surprised that you think her hair looks good, Steve. It looks a little wonky to me, and that's one thing I can only fix through sheer practice. Either way, thanks a lot for the critique, you two.

[SirMustapha]

So I decided to let go of my pickle and do a little bit of innocent fanservice. And as it turns out, there are only two things I'm interested in, and that's titties and beer, you know what I mean?

And, I swear I do declare, i'm so surprised by how well this one came out, that I'm gonna make an effort to colour this. I tried to do it with the previous Lisa pic, but it was a nightmare of mistakes and inconsistencies, while this one turned out... okay, I guess?

Spoiler'd because titties and beer are NSFW.

Spoiler

... maybe... uh, Stravinsky, and...

[SirMustapha]

Yeah, I did the colouring. I'm not sure if it looks good, but this is certainly the best one I've done so far. I tried to do shading, but I'm completely unable to do it, so it's all flat colours. I like it.

Still NSFW.

Spoiler

[Nidotamer]

Oh yeah, shading can be a real pain in the neck. I think the main things is you really have to grasp forms and three-dimensional thinking first, and I'm still working on that. I suppose one thing we could try is drawing out shapes in proper 3d and shading those, to get a feeling for how shading works with various forms.
There's also stuff like reflected light and stuff that's a doozy too.

Still pretty good though! Just think some of the proportions need a bit of work (namely arm thickness, hand size)

[SirMustapha]

Right, proportions, the usual problem. I'll have to give the pic a more critical look later. I admit I might have overlooked some of it, just because of how proud I was for doing that. It was the first time I did something in which everything looked more or less right.

My attempt at doing shading was pretty short lived, as I realised I was trying to bite more than I can chew. I mean, if it's already difficult for me to see and reproduce figures in 2D, imagine adding another dimension to that. One thing that looked challenging to me is making the entire picture consistent based on the light source. If the lighting isn't consistent, then the whole thing will look screwed up. That seems more important to me than getting the shade right in one shape.

[c_nordlander]

Finally getting around to comment on these:

Walking: sketchy, but Carlos' face looks good. Rosa's face is pretty good as well (it's not an easy angle to draw), but it feels like her forehead might be a bit big in comparison with her other features. Her nose is good. Carlos' nose still looks slightly off, but it's a big step up from before. Their bodies look good (I can't draw bodies at all), except that Carlos' arms are a bit thin, and his left shoulder (our right) seems wonky. Also, you've done a good job drawing him walking, which isn't easy. Perhaps their postures are a bit stiff: doing more life-drawing probably helps with that. I like their shoes. Their hands look good, maybe Carlos' left hand is a bit chubby, but not a big problem. The bush by the road to the left looks a bit odd, but other than that, the background is good.

Embrace: again, the bodies largely look good, but are a bit stiff. Carlos' chin seems a bit odd, too far into his neck (if that makes sense), but his expression is great. I like the realistic folds on the shopping bag, and the picture is very sweet.

Confrontation: the bodies look good here. Maybe a bit stiff, but I can't find anything to nitpick. Carlos' pose and expression are great, and his clothes look good. Maybe his face is a bit basic, but drawing is about simplicity a lot of the time. Rosa's face doesn't look bad, but it does look like her eyes are a bit close together. I know it's because of the angle... oh, I don't know how to give constructive advice. You're making progress for sure. A nice dramatic moment.

Lisa playing the transverse flute: this is better Simpsons-style than I could ever draw! The others have pointed out the problem with the arms, and I think her head is a tiny bit too big as well, but by and large it's on-model. The complex notes are great, I love it when people put that sort of things into their artwork. Her expression is the best, though, and very show-appropriate.

Lisa fanservice: you've already received some con-crit on this, so I won't repeat that, but I think it's close enough to the show that you could pass it off as your own style. Lisa's very thin neck is my biggest problem with it. Her pants look good enough, though maybe there should be a bit more indication that they're standing out from her skin. But again, the Groening style is fairly simplistic.

All in all, you're making progress, and the OFF stuff is better than I could possibly draw. So good luck with your future art!

[SirMustapha]

Dang, your reviews are a lot more in depth than I expected for these drawings! Especially when my own reaction to some of them is mostly "gahh, what the hell is this??". I think all of your criticism is spot on, and most of the weird bits you point out are mostly due to the difficult angles (e.g. in the embrace pic, Carlos's head is supposed to be tilted down) or just plain lack of skill. They could be corrected, if I put some damn effort in it. The one that gets me is about the "stiffness" you talk about. I can see the problem, but have no idea what's actually wrong. Maybe the excess of hard, straight lines? The lack of shading? I'd find out if I did more damn practice, that's for sure.

In all, thank you for your very thought out comments. That's very illuminating criticism to keep in mind when I get to draw again.

[c_nordlander]

I figured that Carlos' head was supposed to be tilted down, but it still looks a bit weird. Kind of hard to get references for that sort of thing, though. (Good luck trying to see your own profile in the mirror!)

The one that gets me is about the "stiffness" you talk about. I can see the problem, but have no idea what's actually wrong. Maybe the excess of hard, straight lines? The lack of shading? I'd find out if I did more damn practice, that's for sure.

I feel like the blind leading the more sighted people when I try to give comments on art, but this thread has a real bona-fide artist explaining how to draw less stiff characters (with some illustrations!) and it seems to work.

[SirMustapha]

So here's another one in the "Lisa in undies ignoring the viewer" series... if this is even a series now. I can see problems with it, but I like this even better than the previous one. It's gentle, innocent, and gives me a sense of calm. It's mildly NSFW, though, so watch out.

Spoiler

[AssistantCrone]

Heh, I see what you mean about the calm. This is probably just before meditative exercises and waffles.

Good stuff: the fact that there's some fleshiness to the figure, the way the camisole hangs (though the side hanging down ought to show the far edge, sort of a half-ellipse), and I do see some weight in the pose. Errors I saw: that fleshiness in the legs isn't also in the arms, which look too rectangular and flat, feet need more foot, and the side of the face wouldn't be as rounded or it gets a bit Sonic.

Weird to say, but there's this minimalist album-cover look to a lot of stuff you draw. I suggest Pants of Tranquility for the title

[SirMustapha]

Those are excellent points. I think the face is too round indeed. Also, originally, the feet were even smaller; after I made them a little bigger, I thought it was enough. So, yes, thanks a lot for the comments!